compraventahandpan.org (warning)

[broussel2]

Well, given the fact that their business model and the people behind it sent me an unsolicited email to incorporate me in their pattern, I feel I'm - against my will - put in a position where I have to judge of this rather than being simply compassionate or not. Besides, it would easier to be compassionate if this website and their discourse hadn't been presented as a depersonalized, mostly anonymous business model. This is a generic collage, an empty shell they request you to fill.

[Marnamber]

This is sad guys... Can someone really believe this?
Well, after Hernan Drum / Saggitarius drum scam, this shouldn't be a surprise.

We really are not far away from this:

quotes:

"oooh! Since i ordered a super mega handpan i lost 80 thousand kilos... i cannot feel any better! Thank you handpan!"

"Since i got one of these i became a latin lover, %100 guaranteed that any hippie chick will come to talk to you!


Satisfaction! Hang has what you want, it has what your neighbour wants, it has what your cow wants!!!! ORDER NOW!

calloffer.gif (164.15 KiB) Viewed 14577 times

[broussel2]

You mean it doesn't work on hippie chicks ? Oh, wait...

[don marco]

Cheers for your compassion Guitargonaut!! It is admirable!!

I've traveled most of latin america and seen with my own two eyes much of the social and economic disparity and inequality in many countries of both central and south america. The middle class hardly exists in some places. It's enough to provoke more than one tear as well as feel deeply blessed to be lucky enough to be born in a land with greater economic opportunities. Interestingly though, some of the most friendly, honest, and generous people I have ever met were also the very poorest people I have ever met....both in the first and third world. Last I checked, there are also just as many saints from the third world as from the first world, if not more so.

I try to seek compassion as much as possible in life, but also not use it to hide from the truth of reality or history.

We are all animals on this planet, and many of our animal and emotional instincts play out in every facet of our lives, no matter what country we live in. In the face of predatory intentions, compassion is usually worthless at doing anything but getting eaten, or in the case of MANY BUSINESSES WORLDWIDE that are predatory, getting screwed out of our money.

There are just as many scammers in the States and Europe as in anywhere else. Actions speak louder than words and the people on this forum remember those actions in order to warn the newbies of the present and future so they don't get screwed. That is one of the main points of this forum, to share information!

Everyone has problems, everywhere, but blaming shabby business morals on a sympathy provoking sap story is pretty lame in my opinion no matter where you come from, what your family history or genetics maybe. Sometimes, the most compassionate thing we can do in life is draw boundaries, as there is no way to get through to a person or business otherwise.

As for clean slates, they come much easier with
1. answering questions on the past
2. admittance of the previous problems
3. apologies
I haven't seen any of these actions in this case or in the case of at least one other builder in the First world with a similar history.

While studying to be a general contractor years ago, I will never forget the words of the teacher on the final day:

"There are people that RUN businesses and people that BUILD them. People that run them will do whatever it takes to make another dollar, including cutting corners, overcharging, and doing a shabby job. They rarely get ahead and struggle from one customer to the next. People that build businesses on the other hand put love and dedication into their work, do whatever it takes to make sure their customers are happy, and go out of their way to do the best job possible for the most fair and reasonable price. Their customers share their experiences and recommend them to their friends and given their business is in a good market, it will often grow as much as they desire."

I salute you for taking a chance on this builder and by my account, he has scored a solid positive public point as you seem a very happy customer that received a pan for apparently a great price! Almost a third of what some of their previous customers paid in fact. It only does so much to counteract or balance the momentum of history however.

Thank you for sharing your account but honestly, I think your wasting your time trying to erase everyone's memories by asking for compassion. Perhaps a bit more meaningful action would be posting a video of the pan, and letting the steel speak for itself. I hope that there are many people happily behind you and that each of them posts here about their experience as you have! I suspect that after a long list of happy customers, honesty, and moral business practices, the world's first impression may wear so thin it hardly exists.

I can only hope so.

[broussel2]

For the record, we are talking here about a handpan/tank drum resale business. It is not located as far as I know, and if they obviously share a mailing list with Sagittarius Handpan, the relation between them is unclear. One thing is certain : this website is not about building any handpan, it is about creating a position for themselves as an intermediary on the handpan secondary market.

Nice thoughts, though, Don Marco !

[CarolW]

Compassion towards a business model ?

No. I meant compassion for the people behind the business model. It's near impossible to fully understand the context under which this venture came about... the history, familial and the socio-economic circumstances, even the biological (genetic, psychological, etc). What I am saying is that given a deterministic universe guided by atomic forces, it could easily have been any one of us; thus it really only makes sense to show compassion, rather than judgement, because we cannot possibly properly empathize.

Says the person who owns a Sagittarius handpan

That's okay. Guitargonaut, I'm appreciating your posts on this. I can't know what conditions in Colombia might affect Sagittarius, nor how they might do that. I do suspect living there can't be easy, and maybe conducting business of any sort also isn't easy. So I thank you for your views.
As long as the business DEALINGS are honest, the prices reasonable and the instruments satisfactory, seems to me we couldn't necessarily ask for more.

There were many times I judged with condemnation in my own mind. I guess I no longer need to do that, thanks to your posts.

Mon, 25 Mar 2013 11:56:58 (PDT)

[phoenix]

Sometimes, the most compassionate thing we can do in life is draw boundaries, as there is no way to get through to a person or business otherwise.

As for clean slates, they come much easier with
1. answering questions on the past
2. admittance of the previous problems
3. apologies
I haven't seen any of these actions in this case

I could not agree more Don Marco
We have repeatedly offered this opportunity but it has not been taken up

I don't see this as the actions of a community lacking in compassion or forgiveness
Quite the opposite actually ...

[Spike]

don marco, My respect for you has just gone way up my friend!!!! Your thoughts are always right one target and so clear

[CarolW]

Sometimes, the most compassionate thing we can do in life is draw boundaries, as there is no way to get through to a person or business otherwise.

As for clean slates, they come much easier with
1. answering questions on the past
2. admittance of the previous problems
3. apologies
I haven't seen any of these actions in this case

I could not agree more Don Marco
We have repeatedly offered this opportunity but it has not been taken up

I don't see this as the actions of a community lacking in compassion or forgiveness
Quite the opposite actually ...

Normally I would want compliance with all those things. What I feel I can't know is, if there is some kind of mob action going on causing a need to hide identity.

Difficult to do that and conduct business as well.

Anyway, what I haven't till now allowed for is, some situation I truly don't comprehend and don't know of. So I'd now have to go by outcome.

Mon, 25 Mar 2013 12:47:55 (PDT)

[phoenix]

What I feel I can't know is, if there is some kind of mob action going on causing a need to hide identity.

Difficult to do that and conduct business as well.

Are we talking about some kind of Colombian mafia drug ring handpan connection thang now, with the Gomez's as helpless victims ?